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The Red Sox are the New Yankees...Except For All The Winning |
Wednesday, January 24, 2007 |
One of these boxers is a 2-time MVP. The other can't catch a knuckleball to save his life.
For most of my lifetime, the Yankees have been known for 3 things: dominating the AL East, signing old guys, and spending a lot of money to lure the biggest names in the game to the Bronx. Red Sox fans, whose team has long been doomed to be a perennial second banana to the Yanks (I was in a medically-induced coma in October of 2004, so I have no comment on the goings-on of that period), have always seemed to take greater joy from their hatred of the Yankees' spending and all-star lineup than from the successes of their own team, dubbing the Yanks the "Evil Empire" and cultivating a superiority complex rivaled only by that of fundamentalist Christians.The tide has been changing out on the East Coast, though, for both the Yanks and the Sox. Steinbrenner isn't getting any younger, and he seems to have finally loosened the death grip he's had over the decision-making process enough to let the Cash Man's superior business sense and baseball instincts make an impact on the team. Cashman has not traded away any top prospects or signed any 40+ veterans in the past several years; in fact, he has made an effort to rid the team of some older players that were sucking up payroll (not to mention bringing morale down with their foul attitudes...I'm looking at you, Sheff and Unit) in favor of stockpiling promising prospects. Cano, Wang, and Melky have shown fans and critics that the farm system is producing some enviable talent and has made the Yankees Chick hopeful that the Yanks will continue to promote youngsters from within the system. While the Yanks have been taking strides to lower payroll and bring the average age of their team down from senior citizen status, the Red Sox have been selling their farm to feed an apparent new addiction to big names. After the 2005 season, they let their top 2 prospects go - - Mr. no-hitter Anibal Sanchez and 2006's rookie of the year, Hanley Ramirez - - to sign Josh Beckett and the overpriced Mike Lowell, traded a great young pitcher ( Bronson Arroyo) for a decent 4th outfielder ( Wily Mo Pena), and ditched Mirabelli (AKA Tim Wakefield's girlfriend) only to give up a 21-year-old pitcher ( Cla Meradith) and solid backup catcher ( Josh Bard) to get Mirabelli back mid-season! This year, they set their sights on Matsuzaka and bid an absurd $51+ million to secure the negotiating rights, almost $20 million more than what the 2nd- and 3rd- place teams were willing to pay to deal with Matsu. There is virtually no question that Matsuzaka is a huge talent, but the lengths the Sox were willing to go to just to ensure that no other team could have him speaks volumes about their new M.O. For comparison, the Red Sox have tacked on an extra $40 million in payroll this year (assuming the JD Drew deal eventually gets finalized at a price anywhere in the neighborhood of the 5-year, $70 million he was originally offered), and the Yankees have brought their payroll down by a good $15 million; Boston's payroll looks to be just $20 million less than the Yankees' in 2007. Red Sox fans have spent many years rationalizing their team's shortcomings by claiming that the Yankees "buy" their championships and sell their young players for veterans, but the Yankees have shown that those days are all but over. As for the Sox...I think the MLB has found its new "Evil Empire" - - except this one comes without the winning. Labels: red sox rivalry |
posted by Yankees Chick @ Wednesday, January 24, 2007 |
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43 Comments: |
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what you just said is 100% true they are now spending/ wasitng money on vetrans, letting go of good young players, they have become the new yankees
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what you just said is 100% true they are now spending/ wasitng money on vetrans, letting go of good young players, they have become the new yankees
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How could they win, they haven't played a single game as the supposed "new evil empire." Spoken like a true Yankees fan. In one article you explain how badly you want the Yankees to spend over $20 million for half a year of Roger Clemens then in another you congratulate the Yankees for what a job they've done getting rid of over payed players over 40. Piece together all the cliches I've heard from every other Yankees fan and then for the kicker use homosexuality as in insult. I'm a Red Sox fan but I still found your blog entertaining. This post was just disappointing though. You even put the wrong picture up for Matsuzaka. Just so you know the Red Sox do have 2 Japanese pitchers and the one in the picture's Hideki Okajima.
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As for the payrolls being somewhat similar, I think it's great. This will finally give us a chance to see how the teams would compete on a more level playing field. If the Red Sox got Clemens then the playing field would in fact be level and the salaries would be approximately equal.
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C'mon Mr.Mike, be nice to the lady. Its Yanks vs. Sox - a little trash will be tossed. I've seen plenty of inane swill fired from both sides of this debate. At least the lady's funny.
By the way, I don't think you'll find the payroll gap narrowing as much as shown - Yanks' aren't going to drop so much, Boston not up so much. Do find it interesting - if we're checking for argument consistency - that the BoSox community would be so comfy with their aggressive spending after all that past bitching.
Must also point out that both org's are doing a better job of internal development. Sox have Papelbon, Pedroia, Delcarmen, Youkilis, maybe Hansen, & Lester - hope all's well there. I'll still never forget Boston Ben Affleck crying after Aaron Bleepin' Boone's moment of fame that the Yankees never develop players, despite having Bernie, DJ, Jorge, Mo, Andy P.(round 1), and since departed Soriano, Nick Johnson, J. Rivera playing at the time.
But The Chick is right - lately we have held on a little tighter to the chicks in the nest. But both do what they must - when in contention, the prospects get dealt. In fact, both org's have taken on big salary in the 2 recent free agent / extension spending bubbles - the Yanks with Jeter, Giambi, Mussina (before the latest contract), Posada, then A-Rod & Abreu via trade (Manny also fits this period) in the first one, Boston with Matsu, Lugo, Drew (Pettitte for us) this time around. Neither period marked market lows. Hence the big payrolls. And let's face it, good players get paid, and we've had our share.
Of course, spending getting more equal sort of upsets the Sox "poor us" philosophical approach. And I still think we kick your ass.
Hey, its Yanks - Sox. Trash will be spoken.
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Hey Edelman...
Go back to boston! Take your whiney, second rate, dunkin donut eating, facial hair wearing, "just wait till next year", lame ass back to New England.
I love how the Redsox want so bad to be like the yankees but can ever quite get there. They complain about the Yanks spending money, but then go on crazy spending sprees. And still yet are always #2.
Last year the Sox had the highest payroll in the history of baseball for a team that didnt make the playoffs. In fact, not only did they not make the playoffs they finished THIRD in the AL East. Impressive, no?
Pedro said it best: The Yankees are your daddy. Get over it.
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I guess im just one of those trash talkers.
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By the way Ms. Chick, don't be too hard on Mike Lowell - let's remember he was a Yankee farmhand before heading to the Fish for 3 never made it pitchers in '99. Yes, Cashman was the GM at end of his first year. Nobody's perfect.
Hey, had we kept him we might never had heard the boos, or the oohs, for A-Rod. Silver lining, anyone?
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Naturally I agree w/Yankees Chick too. But the one amazing stat about the Red Sox is how many players are left from their vaunted ' The 25. ' Just for fun, do it on your own time. I'll give you a hint: not a lot.
One word decribes all those affiliated in any way with that Boston baseball club: hypocrites.
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nyyfaninlaaland, I know there is plenty of trash from both sides. If a Red Sox fan posted something like this I'd be equally as critical. I mean come on, she doesn't even know what Matsuzaka looks like and she uses him as one of her main criticisms. I've found that there are Red Sox fans complaining with the spending they've done this offseason. Plenty of them are quick to criticize the deals for Lugo, Drew and even the bid for Matsuzaka. Those are probably in the minority though. Yankees fans haven't exactly stayed true to their old arguments either. I've heard plenty of Yankees fans complaining about payroll. The irony in that is pretty humorous.
As for a "poor us" mentality. That's mostly promoted by idiots like Bill Simons. Even more so it's forced onto the Red Sox by Yankees fans who miss the good old days when it was true. You'd be hard pressed to find a Red Sox fan that identifies with a "poor us" mentality since 2004. At least we can agree on one thing though. You can be sure that I like to see Ben Affleck cry as much as you do. I hate that guy.
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Hey Nicky, thanks for the constructive comment. For the record, I can't go back to Boston as I've never lived there. I was born and raised in New York. You're right in that last year was largely a failure. It was a disappointing year for many Red Sox fans but just as 2003 was a bad year for the Red Sox, it's driven them to go out and make some big additions to the team in hopes of a playoff run next year.
Sorry to upset your revisionist history but didn't Pedro go out and beat the Yankees in game 5 after he said that? Nothing but good memories from that whole "Who's your daddy?" campaign. Although, "Who's your Papi?" may be more appropriate considering how that series actually happened.
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Juke, how many Yankees are left from the last time they won a championship? What does it matter?
If that's true then point out one way in which I'm a hypocrite.
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Just wanted to say, I just found your blog, I have no idea why it took me so long to find a lady who not only loves the Yanks but is just as knowledgeable abotu them as well. Love it Keep up the good work, Go Yanks!
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Bottom line - The Sox will NEVER EVER be the franchise that the Yankees are.
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Got to give it to you Edelman, it amazes me to hear as much payroll cut talk as I have lately from our side. Hey, we wouldn't mind winnin' on the cheap if we could - just want to win however.
It is also a sign of significantly greater minors depth - plus some pitching inconsistentcy lately - that its coming out. Might also be a little bit of rotogeekdom - looking for the next little known hero - so prevalent on these web exchanges. No discredit to Ms. Chick on that account though - she appears all fan of the game to me, and I'm sure you'd agree.
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TRUE THAT ....AND JUST THINK $70MILL FOR JD DREW?!?!
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Oh Edelman....
I love that. Another Pink Sox fan bringing up 2004 like it will last forever. Sweet nostalgia. Winning one year seems to get Boston fans pretty hyped.
And who's the Yankees Papi? Well, I'll tell ya one thing... It sure aint fat boy Ortiz. He's a talented player, but maybe if he spent more time on the treadmill instead of perfecting his chinstrap, he could actually accomplish a few things like 1. learn defense 2. win an MVP (dudes got no defense) and 3. stop having the "heart problems" that cut down his playing time.
Get him off the Big Macs.
Now, let's review:
MVPS Papi: 0 A-Rod: 2
Or did i revise that too?
Well, while im so busy being a revisionist, maybe you can take some time to envision this:
If the Sox won the world series every year from now until 2026, they still wouldn’t match the Bronx Bombers. Start playing catch up.
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She seems a little fan girl to me putting up pictures of the wrong pitcher and everything... She didn't really make any points I haven't heard elsewhere multiple times. It's not like I ever read this as a serious baseball blog though, it's entertaining in the same way that Fox News is. She doesn't really back up any of her points with stats or make reasoned arguments, she's just very emotional. I know you guys probably think I'm the enemy here but I think if you're going to say things like this, a rebuttal should be allowed. I'm just fooling around with most of my points and giving you guys a hard time for the fun of it.
Jimi, are you seriously a Yankees fan complaining about another team's payroll?
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Sorry about your medically-induced coma... nothing important happened anyway.
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mike, when did i use homosexuality as an insult?! come on now.
and you're right, clemens IS over 40. however, he is just as productive as he was when he was 35...or 30...or 25....so I make an exception for him. he is no kevin brown.
as for the picture....eh, google images must have failed me. sorry bout that. by the time i finished writing the post i was pretty sick of talking about the red sox so i grabbed the pic and called it a night. nothin but high class here!
as for me being a "little fan girl"....i suppose that could be accurate if by "little fan girl" you mean "girl that, unlike many red sox and yankees 'fans' (male and female), knows what she is talking about (despite being lazy and perhaps putting up a pic of the wrong pitcher...i will admit that is pretty pathetically lazy!) and backs up her points with logic and stats quite often".
That said, I actually like your blog - - much as it pains me to admit it!!! :)
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You certainly weren't calling Mirabelli Wakefield's girlfriend as a compliment. Yankeeschick, for the most part I like your blog as well. It's very entertaining at times. I won't let this post change my opinion on it. Sorry I called you a fangirl, that's kind of the standard insult for females when they do something that a guy thinks demonstrates lack of baseball knowledge. The Matsuzaka/Okajima mix up probably could have happened to a lot of Yankees fans though.
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mike, yankee chick is ranked #17 in "the top 100 baseball sites". your site "inside the monster" site is ranked #83. those objective stats say "little fan girl" is kicking your butt. maybe you should take on #60 or #70 before going after #17. i'm with yankee chick that i like your blog, but maybe if you spent more time on your own blog instead of trying to bash her on hers you might do better. and put that rating # back on your blog. hiding the score doesn't change it.
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i did call mirabelli wakefield's girlfriend, but i wouldn't say that's a "homosexual insult". i was just messing around.
i def. didn't mean to insult anyone - except the red sox, but not for being homosexual, just for messing up royally w/ that mirabelli deal :)
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Nicky, I'm bringing up something from 3 years ago while you're bringing up championships from more than 50 years ago "like it will last forever." If you're going to knock me for being nostalgic then I'm afraid you can't use the standard, mindless Yankee fan comeback of "26!" now can you?
What does it matter how much David Ortiz plays? He's arguably the best hitter in the league. I'd much rather have a player that's large from as he put it, "rice and beans" than one that get big on steroids. Isn't it your team captain that says MVP's don't matter? I in no way claimed David Ortiz has the career that Alex Rodriguez has had. All I said was that he consistently beats the Yankees. I'm not so sure what him being large has to do with that.
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Randy, I took that counter off a year ago. I only used it in the first place to promote by blog when I created it a couple months ago. Not only has Yankees Chick been around quite a bit longer than me but that ranking is based only on traffic. It is in no way a measure of the content or quality of the blogs (and I'm not saying I should be higher than Yankees Chick or that her blog has less content or quality). Peter Gammons could have a blog and if he did it under another name he wouldn't crack the the top 50. I'm not at all trying to have the most popular blog. I purposely do things on my site that will keep it from becoming overly popular. All I care about is making some of the most intelligent commentary and analysis that I came capable of in regards to the team I love.
If it's only popularity that matters to you though, I also invited to write for Fire Brand of the American League which is much more widely read than this blog.
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Do you have to remind me of the Mirabelli deal? It was good the first time we made a deal involving him, not so much when we did it the second time.
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Wow! Looks like a Chick vs. Edelman pay-per-view is in the offing.
Nothing gets the blood goin' like Yanks vs. Sox. Where would we be without it?
Guess I've gotta check your site out Mike - see how the other side lives. But I guess what we're all talking about here is what's better - addition by subtraction or addition by addition. Nothing wrong with a little strategy shift. Maybe Mike would care to comment on the role of player development in recent Sox history. I don't see that they've done different then the Yanks. I think we're talkin Yankee reputation here more than reality. Again going to Affleck - in '03 NY had quite a few more home growns - Nomar & Trot were about it in Boston. So while the Beaneaters have moved a few high profile prospects lately (noticed '06 NL BA champ Freddy Sanchez among Sept. callups in '03 - ouch), they've also got more homeys than before. Maybe we're both goin' broke! "You've gotta know when to hold 'em..."
Guess October will tell us how it played out.
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You know what, you Sox fans want to bring up '04 like it was yesterday all the time, hows about the fact that on that team, you had one player who came up from the minor system, Trot Nixon, which isn't saying much. Yankees '00 WS, we had DJ, Bernie, Pettitte, Mo, Posada...Come on, who really bought their WS? And you know what? You guys should be ashamed that you lost 3 games in the ALCS in the first place! You guys had Schilling and Pedro, two guys who would be aces ANYWHERE, while our ace was...Mussina...Now I'm not crackin on moose, he is great, but he isn't the ace. In closing, all we really need to say is it is 26-5, good luck catching up anytime in our lifespan fellas.
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I just came for the Derek Jeter porn!!
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Brian, Epstein didn't get to the Red Sox until the 02-03 offseason. It was him that revived the farm system. So it makes sense that they didn't have a lot of homegrown players on the team in 2004. It's in no way a reflection of the team's philosophy under Epstein.
The Red Sox should be ashamed they didn't beat the Yankees sooner? Wow, that's a new one. Would you have said that at the time or is it just an excuse you're using now?
As for that last number, you might want to check it again. Your point would be been a lot more convincing if it was actually right.
I don't think Red Sox fans care about catching up. They have something the Yankees will never have. They have a record that will probably never be beaten in their 3-0 comeback. But more importantly they the one most meaningful World Series that will probably ever be won. The Yankees can win 26 more and I'd still rather have that 1. It's quality, not quantity as most would say.
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Sorry Mike, but you're gettin' a little testy there. What makes '04 "the most meaningful World Series"? Sure it's meaningful in Boston, but in Chicago the White Sox in '05 is probably seen as more meaningful, surpassed should it ever happen by the next Cubs championship - which lots more folks nationwide would view as more meaningful than '04. Then there's Maz's Pirates in '60, Carter's Blue Jays, the "we are family" Pirates in '70's, etc., etc., etc. And for us Yanks fans - especially the older ones like me (Mazaroski's homer being about my first baseball memory) there's lots of memories, and just like you Sox fans, there not all about winning.
By the way, a comeback in a playoff series is an event. Some other team will do the same some day, but calling such a thing a record just speaks to the overplaying of stats so common in baseball. Yeah, it was painful to watch, but time marches on. How did Boone's homer feel in '03? Right, painful. Winning's winning, man. We each rejoice when our team gets the brass ring. It hurts when they lose. Hey, out here on "the OC" I have to listen to Angel fans all the time about how "you never beat us in the playoffs". My response - get there a little more often and we'll see what happens. Being there does matter, and it matters more so recently than historically. I'll take current streaks of 9 straight division titles and 12 straight playoff appearances as a nice current legacy of success. Your team's done pretty well lately too - a more recent championship, plenty of playoff appearances. We're in perhaps the golden age of the rivalry, the best one in sports. Sorry, you're still second.
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NYYFAN, I wouldn't say I'm being any more testy than any of the Yankees fans in here. I just may not be saying what you want to hear. The '04 championship was meaningful to much more than just Red Sox fans. The entire country, even people elsewhere in the world were rooting for the Red Sox. I think it's rather foolish to think that the White Sox championship in '05 was more meaningful. I'm not sure what your reasoning for that one was. Perhaps a Cubs championship could one day be more meaningful. It's not just the years in between championships that matter though. No baseball fan base follows their team as feverishly (and I'm not saying this to claim they're the best fans) as the Red Sox fan base. It's not just a city or state wide fan base either. It's the majority of baseball fans in at least 5 states that are behind the Red Sox. No other championship will probably ever be won in similar fashion either. Given that it's the only time in the history of the sport that a team came back for a 3-0 deficit in the playoffs I'd have to disagree that another team is likely to do it. The chances of any other team ever making such a miraculous playoff run coupled with such a rabid fan base that had been waiting so long are next to none. I know you don't want to admit it because you're a Yankees fan but I think most baseball fans would agree that the '04 championship was the most meaningful one in the history of mlb.
Call us second all you want, we've still been more successful than the Yankees since Epstein took over. Yankees fans repeatedly tell me I'm living in the past if I mention the 04 championship but the reality of it is this. How many championships have the Red Sox won in this century? 1. How many have the Yankees won in this century? 0.
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nyyfaninlaaland, you are probably the only one posting on this blog who will relate to this. i was waiting for the school bus with my classmates after school listening to a radio when mazeroski hit that homer. that was the worst feeling ever. total silence on the way home. but i imagine it felt the the best world series ever for pirate fans that day. 30 years later, i was having lunch at an outside table in florida when a polite older guy asked if he could grab a seat at the table. we got talking and it turned out to be ralph terry. he was a top senior tour golfer at the time and we talked about golf. i didn't have the heart to bring up that homerun. never said i was a yankee fan. of course he wasn't the tragic figure i remembered because he was the world series mvp in 1962 , and in that series was on the mound in the seventh game pitching a 1-0 shut out that ended when McCovey hit the line drive rocket to bobby richardson with willie mays on second and alou on third with the tying and winning runs. but all i rembered about him that time when i met him was that mazeroski homerun. when someone thinks their world series is the best ever they just haven't been around for that many world series. it just seems like that at the time.
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Oh kiss my ass Mike I messed up on one number. I'm not gettin down on the "Epstein" way of Red sox baseball, all I am saying is that you sox fans say we buy our World Series, but when you win one, you fail to look at the fact that you had two aces on your team, and a 3-4 guy who was better than anyone else, and that is why you won. It was a series for the ages, I am bias to think that '03 was better, only because the Yankees won, but thats casue I am a Yankees fan, and no numbers stats or anyones "What ifs" are going to change that. Little warning however, your Sox seem to be falling into the same pit s the yankees did 02-06, spending millions and millions on names. You think your getting s*** now for buying your '04 WS? You just wait kiddo.
And Randy: I can't relate to the Yankees losing to the Pirates back then, but I felt that same way in '01 when that liner went over Mo's head. It was the first year I really got into the team, and they didn't pull through. Years later I see superstars come and go, and the only thing that club house doesnt have is the chemestry to pull it all in. the 98-00 teams just seemed to be to tight, and I think that is the only thing they really need. This year I think will be it, bringing Pettite bac, bringing up more kids...Its a different direction the Yankees are going in, and I don't know about everyone else, but I'm enjoying it so far...
Pitchers & Catchers 16 days away...wooot
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brian, you call that a liner. i think it was more of a broken bat blooper. the reason i say" think" is that i was listening on the damn radio again. i didn't realize that until just now. that's it, no more radio on game sevens from now on.
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Brain, I don't think anyone actually criticized the Yankees for "buying" a world championship because they were never able to. It's the attempting to buy a world championship and failing that was criticized.
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this is what it cost the yankees for their last four world series championships 2000 $ 92,938,260 1999 $ 88,130,709 1998 $ 63,159,898 1996 $ 52,189,370 the red sox have the record for the highest payroll while winning a world series: Boston Red Sox $ 127,298,500 yankee chick might be on to something when she says as far as spending goes, the red sox are the new yankees. if the helton deal goes through the red sox will take on even more long term payroll. it looks like that 5 game boston massacre last year has forced the red sox to be buyers in the mother of all sellers markets.
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Lord have mercy ... wow.
Mike, I hate to say this, but the Red Sox are now just the same as any big market team these days.
The Red Sox charm before 2004 was they'd contend, get into the playoffs and lose tragically in a fashion that would rival a Roman tragedy.
Now since the team is spending money like it's water and building the Fenway infrastructure to support the money being spent and attracting even more people, the charm is kind of gone with them - at least in my eyes.
Simply, baseball is a business and the Red Sox are benefiting (and greatly) from the crazy atmosphere up there and supply vs. demand.
The average person is priced out of Fenway, anyway; but the hundred years plus and going war between the two teams always makes baseball interesting.
Anthony - the Oriole Post http://oriolepost.blogspot.com
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Hey Yankees Chick, I just came across your blog on the "Top 100 Baseball Sites" page (I'm currently #15) and I must say I think it's great.
Admittedly I hate the Yankees and am a Sox fan, but I still have to give you your props.
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And the Yankees last won . . . when exactly?
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Just found out about your blog now ... good stuff !!!
Loved the part u said u were in a coma in october 04 haha
GO YANKEES
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Greatest Comeback in the History of Sports.
http://mobclan.com/pointto/ArodPurse.jpg
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what you just said is 100% true they are now spending/ wasitng money on vetrans, letting go of good young players, they have become the new yankees